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Discussions about cameras, lenses, accessories, and image-processing.
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Adobe Elements 7 years 2 months ago #835

  • Paul Jensen
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I am using Elements 11 and wondering if anybody is using 14/15 and if it is worth upgrading. Ian Wilson I see you are using 14 and got some great shots at Kingfisher Park, some of which I didn't even see. I am using Nikon Capture NX-D for pre processing and converting to JPG. Comments on this would be appreciated as I don't think I am using it's full capabilities.
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Adobe Elements 7 years 2 months ago #837

  • Ian Wilson
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Hi Paul,
Good to see you are working on improving your workflow. I was using PSE7 until December 2015 when I changed to PSE14. My reason for upgrading was to run some 64-bit third party plug-ins (PSE7 only supported 32-bit processing). I don't think I gained any other features that I regularly use for processing bird images that I could not do with PSE7. Jill recently upgraded from PSE11 to PSE15 when she bought a new computer. She has just confirmed that there are no new capabilities in PSE15 that she finds useful for processing bird images. The big selling feature of PSE14/15 is the facial recognition algorithm that is no doubt useful for some users but we disabled this capability as it automatically started working on our bird catalogues looking for new faces whenever we started up our computers.

I use Canon DPP for RAW adjustment and conversion and I do not have first-hand experience with Nikon Capture NX-D, apart from looking at it on the Nikon website. I believe it produces clean, low-noise RAW conversions which is a good start. Many different demosaic, noise reduction and sharpening algorithms are used to convert RAW files and there are noticeable differences in the resulting image quality. You should output 16-bit RGB from Capture NX-D to PSE for further adjustment. PSE has a limited capability for adjusting 16-bit files but it is enough to fine tune the lighting, colour, and make selections that enable you to work separately on the bird, the background and selected areas. To use the clone stamp and layers you need to convert to an 8-bit TIFF. Do the final downsize and output sharpening on the 8-bit TIFF and then convert and save as a JPEG. Do not manipulate the JPEG in any way as you will then need to save it again with a possible loss of image quality due to JPEG compression.

Hope this is useful, best wishes,
Ian
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Adobe Elements 7 years 2 months ago #839

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Thanks Ian for that info. There is a "bit" there to work through as I don't know much about 16 and 8 bit processing so will have to read up and go through what you have advised.
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Adobe Elements 7 years 2 months ago #841

  • Ian Wilson
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Hi Paul,
The TIFF file format is lossless and uncompressed and is therefore preferred when adjusting and saving images because it minimizes the loss of image quality. Unfortunately, TIFF files are rather large and this can be an issue for some photographers with limited computing resources. More generally, you should try to make all image adjustments using TIFF files and only convert to JPEG as the last step in your workflow if the image is destined for web posting. If you are intending to make a large print you will ideally want to print from a high resolution TIFF file.

There is also another issue worth thinking about - try to minimize the number of steps in your workflow. Every time you make an adjustment to the image you change the amount of noise, usually it increases. If you make a lot of adjustments that each add a little bit of noise, then you can end up degrading the overall image quality. It was once fashionable to use a layer for every adjustment because you can save a stack of layers and easily back-track to tweak earlier adjustments. People tend to create layers willy-nilly without realizing that there can be a noise penalty.

We look forward to seeing you at the DPITB conference, best wishes,

Ian
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Adobe Elements 7 years 2 months ago #842

  • Glenn Pure
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And one more thing to add to Ian's advice - specifically regarding your question of 8 versus 16 bit files. A 16 bit file contains vastly more tonal information (the number of steps between black and white). For a 16 bit file it is 2 to the power of 16 = 65,536 tones for each R, G and B channel versus an 8 bit file with 2 to the power of 8 = 256 tones. Any adjustment made on a 16 bit file will essentially be lossless as far as tonal information and detail goes and much finer step changes can be made with noise reduction, sharpening and other tools. Not so for 8 bit files. Also, weird artefacts can sometimes arise when making adjustments to 8 bits files such that noticeable tonal steps appear in areas where tones change gradually, like smooth backgrounds (the steps look a little like contour lines). I'd recommend sticking with 16 bit files as long as possible in your workflow.

Cheers
Glenn
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Adobe Elements 7 years 2 months ago #843

  • Bruce Terrill
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Hi Guys,
Without the risk of sounding stupid, :silly: :silly: , years ago I used PSE 7/8 to fully develop all my pics from underwater photography, pointless I know. and recently I have been trying to get my head around Lightroom (subscription with CC) and even more recently through PM discussions I have been trying to set up this very program of Capture NX-D with extension to PSE 14/15. My questions to the 'learned' are as follows. . .Why do I need a different RAW processor to the one supplied in PSE 14/15, which could be extended to why is the Capture NX-D program better than the Adobe program in PSE14/15? What corrections are made in the RAW processing, because I see that Ian, in his outline, says that after RAW processing he opens his images in PSE to fine tune the lighting, color and isolate the bird/background, etc., is it not the duty of the RAW processor to make thes adjustments?
This is where I get confused, why make these adjustments in one software only to re-adjust them in another?

I'm sorry Guys, I think this might have hyjacked the thread and taken it away from Paul's original posting?
If this needs to be a different 'thread' could one of the Admins move it for me please and apologies to Paul. . . .

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